Interesting idea for Paid to Play

Discussion in 'Razer Cortex' started by Min-Liang Tan, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. zimmerfire

    zimmerfire New Member


    But it isn't a loyalty program. As Min said in the first post, this was a way to get Razer gear into the hands of people that couldn't afford it.
     
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  2. Hucast

    Hucast Well-Known Member

    Well, Min can change his mind can't he? He is human too ain't he? We all change our minds. I know you all think Min is some Captain of Industry type, but he feels to just like rest of us. To much IMO, to his detriment. Him and his staff they're all soft touches cause they're cool like that.

    Razer ain't going to say it, they got too much pride, so I'll say it for them. The previous incarnation of the program was not economically viable. Not when you got greedy SOB's working the system for $100.00 dollars items in under 4 months or less, or selling $500.00 Buy It Now's collectible's on ebay!
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  3. yoman125

    yoman125 New Member

    @Min-Liang Tan The problem for Synapse is, those scalper or zSilver farmer will just buy themselves a cheapest Synapse enabled gear and continue their farming. It does not solve the problem. The only solution is by asking them to register their warranty by detecting their address(if they input fake address/name not base on their IC or SSN, it is automatically void because he is not the owner of the device). Make it like register yourself through Synapse and get zSilver(500 or 1,000) with extended warranty of 3 month. Or buy a razer gear, get a special access code to paid to play AND limit the redemption to ONE item per address per IP per one Account per Year.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  4. bravebohdan

    bravebohdan New Member

    What if you just allow to purchase one item with zSilver and then require 2 Razer products to continue? In my opinion this would be a win/win if you really want to do such a thing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  5. smokeyvegas702

    smokeyvegas702 New Member

    great idea
     
  6. PTSinger

    PTSinger Well-Known Member

    This is a really interesting idea - it definitely plays well with @Min-Liang Tan's idea of getting Razer gear into the hands of those who don't have any yet, as well as still having a "reward system" for those of us who own a LOT of Razer gear.

    I don't see it stopping the complaints, though. Knowing that you can get a single item for free, everybody will be going for the big-ticket items, and the voucher codes — or stock allocated for zSilver redemption —for those items will run out like they seem to have already done (according to the multitude of threads created to complain about it).

    Plus, once those who can't afford to still purchase more Razer gear will complain that just because they don't have money, they're kept out of the system (although they had money for a computer, and if they took a break from gaming they might be able to go get a job and afford to buy some Razer gear ...).

    Not to mention the throngs of Razer fans across the globe who still don't have access to the zSilver redemption program in the first place. **Any of you reading this, I feel bad for you.**

    I really think that any system where you can actually track your progress will have its detractors. "I didn't get x for my participation in your program!" "I've been saving all my zSilver for x and now it's gone!" "I don't like this system (but I'll take the free stuff)!"

    ******************** More of my own thoughts on the matter**********************

    Personally, I think the best move that Razer could make is to have to the Paid-to-Play program be in the background, and not let people know how much they have (or really if the system is still active). Then, when somebody has earned enough zSilver to get a code for a 100% discount on a Razer Store item in that person's region, they get an e-mail with an offer to redeem for the code (spelling out the details: pay for shipping, not to be used with other codes in the store, etc.). If the person doesn't want it, the zSilver keeps accruing until they reach the amount for the next item, at which time they'll get another e-mail and offer for the discount. No way to check your zSilver balance; no way to see what's available; no way to see what games are active for the month. Best part - no reason to cheat the system by afk-ing, because you don't know what the system is doing. This way, those Razer faithful, who are still using Cortex to play their games (which is what Razer wants), get rewarded for doing so. New folks can still get their first piece of Razer gear this way, too.

    Plusses:
    • Who is going to complain about getting free stuff randomly?
    • No cheating, which means no stealing from Razer
    • Still a Rewards system, even though it's in the background
    Minuses
    • Don't know if/when/what you can get as a Reward until you're sent the e-mail offer
    • No sense of progression toward a goal (but you still get free stuff for playing video games, so why complain?)
    • Those of us who were around for Insider Rewards Beta will still feel like we have lost quite a bit ... but are us Razer loyal really going to complain about not getting as much free stuff any more?
     
  7. proliu

    proliu Member

    Yes I think that is a good move. I think that if you were to enjoy the rewards of zVault you should at least show true substance in the brand. Honestly, it wouldn't affect any true fans of razer since we have already showed our appreciation of the brand; its a good move so that the razer faithful can enjoy more exclusive rewards.
     
  8. xenonexia

    xenonexia New Member

    How about a general access to Paid to Play, but different amounts of awarded "points", i.e. coins of both types.

    There could be a max amount (not too high) of awarded coins for just using Razer gear each day. This or that amount for so many hours of actually using this or that device, as tracked by Synapse. You could even grade it so that if you are using a set with several Razer items connected, you get a slight bonus. Max bonus amount extra (over what is given today) 15 silver a day for using a system with just a Razer mouse or keyboard. 20 silver for using keyboard and mouse. And perhaps more silver or a mixed amount of coins for using more than two Razer items in combination, or for using a full system, laptop from Razer, and so on.

    But then again, it is a good idea not to be seen as "the evil one" by potential customers who do not today use anything Razer at all. That won't help all that complaining much, as far as I see it. Give them the solution that is already there today. And let Razer owners and fans be part of that solution as well. But give that little extra to the real fans who keep buying Razer over and over again, and who really love having "the real stuff". Just for showing that fans and returning business really matter.

    If daily totals would need to adjusted in order to not totally ruin the company over having a similar system, then that's just fine. But I think a "standard base" system with extra bonus for being a faithful fan who uses the stuff daily should be a model that would be really appreciated by a lot of people.
     
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  9. yoman125

    yoman125 New Member

    it defeat the purpose of paid to play if you did not know what game to play to earn the reward. There are MILLION of product out there every day. I think, more people agreeable to this :

    Make a new loyalty program to the razer store. A purchase of product ranging from $50-100 can get a access of Paid to play with the rate of 1 silver per min with 3 game(1 paid game and 2 random free game) with limit of max 300 per day. This purchase can be accumulated. A purchase of $101-$150 from razer store, can be upgraded to 2 silver per min with 5 game(2 paid and 3 free game) with limit of 600 per day. A purchase of $151 to $200 get a 3 Silver per min with 10 game with 7 free and 3 paid game with limit of 900 per day and so on...
     
  10. PTSinger

    PTSinger Well-Known Member

    I respectfully disagree. If you can still earn zSilver by playing video games, then you are still being "Paid to Play", whether or not you know what games are currently earning zSilver.
     
  11. yoman125

    yoman125 New Member

    If you mean earn zSilver from whatever game you played unlike the current rotation system, i think it has no effect on reducing those scalper. :D
     
  12. PTSinger

    PTSinger Well-Known Member

    But my point is that not knowing IF the game you are playing is earning zSilver or not would discourage AFK accrual. People could sell out of stock Razer gear on eBay for jacked up prices right now, so I'm not concerned about scalpers. I'm talking about reducing the cheating and complaining. Razer changes the games every month so that from month to month, us gamers have no idea if we're earning zSilver. Then if we happen to get a notification saying that we've earned enough to get a free item, we're happy.
     
  13. kajira

    kajira Well-Known Member

    @PTSinger - I would add to your "Cons" list the fact that you wouldn't be able to choose WHEN you make a purchase. I can't speak for others, but in my household we have to plan ahead to make purchases from Razer. We need to plan for the smaller items just as much as the bigger ones and work them smartly into our budget. So, I do think that seeing the catalog and being able to see your zSilver and choose when to redeem a voucher is an integral part of the program. Keep in mind that even if the item is free people are still paying for their shipping, which in some cases can get rather high.

    I think if we went to a somewhat more invisible system then perhaps the zSilver would only update in the vault once a week or something, so people couldn't track it like they do now. Also, Razer could then announce special events (like the Overwatch and PUBG events) where people could know when they could earn extra or faster zSilver if they wished to participate. I think if that were the case then we could still do the 5 games per month along with the members vote for 2 and the other three are chosen by Razer based off the most played games in Cortex. I think if the math itself were hidden and it was harder to track how much you received per session / day then it could go a long way to stopping people from micro-managing everything and trying to AFK and earning points while "cheating" the system.

    @xenonexia I'm not sure how I feel about having the ability to earn zGold in addition to zSilver. Essentially then Razer would be buying your games for you *and* paying you play them to earn free peripherals. So, I think the zGold system can safely be left alone. Besides, the fact that spending zGold already earns you additional zSilver is reason enough to keep it the way it is.
     
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  14. xenonexia

    xenonexia New Member


    I don't see a problem with using only silver if that would constitute a problem. I was suggesting a very low rate of earnings, but I wouldn't be wry set on silver earnings only. That isn't necessarily the problem in my eyes.

    Besides, the silver earnings is also a way for users to get full or part payment in hardware and such for using their products or just being interested in them. Isn't very much of a difference in that sense. All products "given" by Razer (fully or partly), regardless of them being games or Razer hardware, are still a cost. A marketing cost, more than anything else. A way to give back to people for their interest and in the end for being new or returning customers. It's part of the same budget, basically. That's why I didn't see it as a major problem, as long as you don't go earning hundreds of gold, but rather a a very small amount that would add up over time, just like zSilver does. Probably, rather in a way that would give you a rebate on more expensive games, than being able to buy anything pretty much all the time.

    However, as I said, that's just an idea. And the good thing with an idea like this is that it is free to remix after what seems most suitable and functional. Like going for all silver rather than a mix, regardless of what I thought while I first wrote it down. =)
     
  15. Dr.Waeka

    Dr.Waeka New Member

    I understand the problem, but don't agree with the solution. I am sure that when razer team started this program, you knew that this kind of problem would arise sometime, but for the initial purpose "to allow users who don't have Razer gear a way to grind toward owning Razer gear", you still went with it. I am Razer fan since i first got interested in gaming (like 9-10 years ago), but don't have any Razer product because of economical issues. When i first discovered this program, i was delighted. This was the chance to own my first Razer gear and i started playing games like Dota 2, LOL because of this. I amn't really big fan of those games (i personally prefer FPS), but for zsilver, it wasn't an issue. I now have 43k zsilver and really want get Razer Ornata Chroma. Of course, i know that my message wouldn't make much difference, but it really seems unfair that because of some people, others would get such kind of treatment.

    PS: If some has enough razer gear to sell them at ebay, don't you think that they would also have at least one razer product and they would continue to exploit this system? Just my thought.
     
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  16. Hucast

    Hucast Well-Known Member


    Here's something Razer can do. Review their books for unusual activity and ban those accounts. I think that's a good solution that would make everyone happy, no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    And since this is a real life thing and not a game like some abusers or complainers think, Razer had to be shipping that "avarice" swag somewhere......

    Someone's signature is on that received slip.......

    Wink, Wink....
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  17. minarukight

    minarukight New Member

    nooooooo please no !
    i'm one of the people who had to install and play dota 2 in order to get these 900 zsilver. obviously, i'm a lol player, not used to dota at all, got hated for being feeder, suffered a lot to get these 900 zsilver on daily basis... plz don't do it. i've already reached 139k zsilver and willing to go further specially now that lol is back on the games list.
     
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  18. Viper_902

    Viper_902 New Member

    honestly, I think it is a good idea because I have seen people get limited edition stuff and just sell it online as if it were nothing. so giving people who alrea have razer gear a bonus is kind of a good idea, but we should also consider the fans who can't afford it too. it's really up to you all on what you all think you should do and what will make the fans happy. whatever you all do, I will support it to the end. even if it's something useless (like the toaster)
     
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  19. kajira

    kajira Well-Known Member

    Thing is, zGold is pure profit for Razer. You spend real money to purchase an online currency that in turns buys actual products. There's even a conversion rate that is constant. You spend it exactly the same as you do any other currency. So, it's not really in the same vein as zSilver which is a reward currency to earn free products. At least, not in my opinion.

    Though, I do agree that ideas and subsequent adjustments are definitely what's needed to find the right balance for all. :)
     
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  20. Nidavellir

    Nidavellir Member

    What about the others who dont have razer gear and want to have one?